wanted: 16v air con bits

[RobC]

My latest 16v came with a half-sourced and half-installed air con system. Ideally I'd like to finish this off, but will not bother if it turns out to be too complicated to source the parts required.

I have the compressor, full wiring loom, air-con heater matrix and dash controls, one (out of two) recirc motors, one or two hoses.

Stuff I definitely need:
- condensor radiator. I have one for a Gti but apparently this is not the correct size.
- bolts for the compressor to attach to the sump
- one recirc motor (unless the system can be run with just one...?)
- drier bottle
- hoses: will probably have to get these made up bespoke unless someone has them lying around.

Will be making good use of bxproject's very good writeup on the work once I've got everything i need to hand.

Thanks
Rob

[mat_fenwick]

Condensor will be hard to find second hand, especially without a leak. Have you enquired about new availability? This bunch were helpful in getting one for my TD @~£150 so would be worth a try. Alternatively, I can't see why the GTi one wouldn't work, just might need a bit of fabrication in fitting.

Can't see any problem if you only one one recirc motor -assuming you only have one blower motor you'll have to do that anyway. My guess is that Citroen felt that putting the evaporator in meant airflow would be too slow with only one motor, hence doubled it up. If you have two blower motors and one recirc unit then you'd always be taking in 50% outside air.

Drier - I have one in stock if you get desperate, but would prefer to keep it for mine. There was a seller on eBay selling off lots cheap a year or so back, and they may still be advertising.

Sump bolts - the bolts themselves are standard, nothing special. It mounts on rubber bushes, which deteriorated on mine a couple of years back. I simply cut the metal sleeves away from the old bushes, put a close fitting bit of fuel pipe into the sump mounts, and then drilled that to suit the sleeves. You’d need to make some sleeves to suit, but that won’t be hard.

I had a hose made up back in 2005 - about £30 for a foot long one. Don't know if that's the going rate but would hope not! They were NLA from Citroen even then.

[RobC]

Hi Mat

Thanks, all sounds fairly simple (famous last words). I think I've just got the one blower motor. Are they side-specific, or if I want the 'full force' will I need to get one from another a/c car?

Ta
Rob

[Vanny]

The blower motor is side specific, and might be the only thing on your list i have spare! Will check over the weekend.

Does your existing motor have the recirc housing? You'll really rather need the two of them to get the full benefit of the AC.

I got my valver condenser online for £80 new. No idea where from now but i'll have a search through some emails and see if i can find it. The filter/drier was £14 delivered on ebay and show up a lot. It is possible to cut them open and replace the desicant, or even fit one from another model. You will however need the rather PUG specific pressure sensor to go in it, assuming you don't already have one.

My understanding of the compressor bolts is that they where a fixed fitment (no rubber) with allow spacers to have the compressor pulley align with the crank pulley, the tension is then taken up by a caming idler higher up which is held by a stupid double ended bolt. It is infact only this bolt stopping me from having AC on the valver. And i'll be damned if i can find one anywhere.

Pipes can be made up relatively easy, however i'm not sure how you'll get on finding the fittings. Screw together fittings simply aren't used any more. The fittings are also brazed on. We have most of the kit at work for making pipes, but no fittings, no brazing skills or tools, and no one that knows what there doing!

I might have a few pipes off the car that you can get the dimensions off.

I would strong recommend changing all the seals too, they can be bought as a kit from Citroen (£14 and what i opted for) or as individual seals for fractions of pennies.

[mat_fenwick]

You will however need the rather PUG specific pressure sensor to go in it, assuming you don't already have one.

You know more than me on the subject, but I don't see why you couldn't just use separate high and low pressure switches - whatever is available - assuming similar opening pressures.

My understanding of the compressor bolts is that they where a fixed fitment (no rubber)

Ah, I've only got experience of the diesel variety, which was mounted on rubber bushes. Thinking about it, when I swapped from a diesel sump to one from a valver, the bosses were an internal ID, so had to turn down the original rubber bushes to fit then.

[Vanny]

Some pics;

upper blower is regular MASTER blower (on RHS of scuttle when into bonnet from front of car), lower is the Aircon MASTER blower. As you can see the difference is simply that a cover plate is cut out. And looking at that master AC blower, it was simply cut out with a sharp knife!




This is the SECONDARY blower. This transfer duct is a mirror image of the MASTER. The blower spins in the opposite direction, and the fan (ie the blade) are shaped the opposite way around ie if the master is ))))) then the secondary is (((((




Put together they look like this;




The recirc units look like this;







The recirc units are NOT for sale.

My arm could be twisted to sell the SECONDARY AC Blower.

I also found a 16v condenser. It is of unknown condition, though i bought it from a working car, a few fins are damaged, but the cores look fine throughout. We dont have a recharge unit at work any more or i could vacuum test it. I would part with it for £20 +p&p.

[smiffy1071]

How similar is the serpentine belt setup on a 16v, to a turbo d?
I replaced the large adjustable pulley on my diesel, only to find it wasn't what was squealing... so I have a usable spare

Like this one

[Vanny]

Where does that mount Smiffy?

The vlaver one is unique, a big plastic disc with a bearing (like a cambelt tensioner) in the middle and the stupid double ended screw. I was told the XM uses something similar, but as best i can tell it uses a different sized idler with 'normal' bolt.

[smiffy1071]

It bolts to the side of the alloy sump, and is the lowest tensioner. The next one up is the idler wheel, and is smaller, but much more expensive, and is held on with an allen bolt.

[RobC]

Hi all

Thanks for the replies. I'll get in touch as I round everything up.

Currently trying to make sense of the wiring loom, armed with what seems like a slightly different wiring diagram. Does anyone have a link to more than one wiring diagram? The current one I'm using I found from a past by Jay on the bxproject forum.

Thanks
Rob

[Vanny]

I could probably sort you out a wiring diagram or 7! There are at least two different wiring diagrams for UK models, Diesel and 16Valve, then all of the cold European countries have variations for different engines etc. You'll need to know where the loom you have originated from to find exactly which loom you have. The fundamental differences are that the Diesel and 16Valve replace the engine cooling fan wiring (relays), but do it in different ways, and the 16Valve has feed back from the Motronic ECU which inhibits the AC under MAX throttle (but its calculated, and not just WOT).

The one in the haynes doesn't actually match any system i've ever seen!

[RobC]

Thanks Vanny - I'm fairly sure it's a 16v loom that I have (this is what the seller informed me). It definitely has connections for the fans, and the compressor feed has have two origins, which does imply it has two triggers - i.e. one from the dash and one from the ECU?

Anyway if you could find any wiring diagrams that would be really helpful!

Rob

[mat_fenwick]

The one in the haynes doesn't actually match any system i've ever seen!

It's of little use to Rob, but the one I have (I can email if you like?) seems to match the TD system I installed. Certainly I've not spotted any differences yet. I haven't seen anything in Haynes for it. It was very well integrated into the loom of the donor car though, so if the 16v system is similar then exactly how much of it you have will depend on how thorough they were when removing!

My system runs twin fans in series or parallel depending on the engine temperature, AC on or off and system pressure. Presumably the 16v system is similar although with just one fan? The compressor will (obviously) need to cut in when the system is turned on, and cycled depending on evaporator temperature. It will need to have a cut off in the event of high system pressure, and I can't remember whether it is also cut out in the event of high engine temperatures?

[Vanny]

Presumably the 16v system is similar although with just one fan?

Same system, different wiring arrangement. Possibly because it overrides the fans as well as the compressor on max throttle?

In the end i junked the 16v system and just but the TD system on. There was no way i was ever going to find an AC ready Motronic ECU, or even the EEPROM image to add the functionality, so I've nothing to loose in terms of the MAX throttle kill system. I have considered if it needs to be killed to stop the compressor blowing up, but then i have two so its not a huge problem!

[Vanny]

I've put what i think is the Diesel wiring diagram here;

http://www.bxproject.co.uk/phpbb3/viewt ... 125#p63125" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You'll need to be logged into the forum to download it though.

I can't upload it here as PDF extension are not allowed.