BX how safe?

[Way2go]

The number of people on this thread who reckon themselves as good drivers is a bit concerning. I read somewhere that those who believe they're good are the most dangerous.

I totally agree with you on this one Kitch, it seems to be rooted in the macho driver stance. In truth you only have to be in the right place at the wrong time where circumstances add up to create that unavoidable collision. Good driving may reduce the occasions of those circumstances but it's arrogance to believe that it can completely eliminate them!
I also find the periodic rant by some against ABS peculiar, as this seems rooted in the same macho philosopy. ABS is undoubtedly of considerably more benefit to have than not to all drivers here whatever car they drive. It also may have unknowingly saved them when in use by another driver irrespective of whether he/she was a dickhead!

[Paul296]

I think it's probably a fair assumption that many - if not most - on this forum will actually be pretty good drivers. Cars and driving in general is something they have an enthusiasm for and they tend to see cars as an end in themselves as opposed to a means to and end. Although it's fair to say that some car enthusiasts will see 'good driving' as somehow synonymous with macho confidence; that is not the case. For most people a car is simply a 'thing' to meet practical transport needs and kid everyone else that they're 'successful' - nothing more. And while I'm sure there are many non-car enthusiasts that are very conscientious drivers, there's a significant majority that aren't; they behave like complete twats . . . and I've seen them.

Whether or not I'm a good driver I've no idea, but I'm certainly a careful driver. Not just because I don't want to knock a cyclist off his bike or kill school children (which I don't), but also because my cars are in very good nick and I don't want all those other maniacs anywhere near them . . . tar very much.

[mds141]

I see car control as an art form. Perfectly judging the apex of a bend, matching engine speed to gear selection, perfectly blipping the throttle to assist gear change. So on and so forth. I certainly don't maintain a 'macho' ethos.

[Paul296]

With 58bhp of raw, untameable throbbing power grumbling away under the bonnet of my TGD, 'machismo' isn't really an option.

[Way2go]

I see car control as an art form. Perfectly judging the apex of a bend, matching engine speed to gear selection, perfectly blipping the throttle to assist gear change. So on and so forth. I certainly don't maintain a 'macho' ethos.

"Macho" was used in a "tongue in cheek" way for drivers on here BUT the point is that good driving on your part will not eliminate accidents. I have had only a few in many years of driving but had two where the other driver pulled out of a side turning in front of me, once when I was on a motorbike and a another time in a car. On both occasions they were 2 way roads where I had right of way in a 30mph zone (& I was inside the limit). They pulled out when I was already on top of them as clearly their observation was faulty which left me with no opportunity to stop or safely swerve to avoid them.
The only way to avoid such accidents would be to stop at each intersection which clearly would not be good driving when you are on the major road and even then something else might occur ie being rear-ended by the guy behind who is not anticipating you stopping for no reason.

[Thread Bear]

On a good day, with the right car, driving is a form of art. Great satisfaction can be got from being in harmony with the vehicle and getting the most in an effcient safe way from it. Particularly older machinary that requires a level of skill. This is where my Messesrchmitts and such come in. You can have a fantastic drive within the speed limits. The bonus is that the humble appearence of some of these cars belies a suprisingly fast A to B speed when all is in harmony. Another obvious candidate for the lanes is a Spridget. The average driver today just does not understand were the big grin comes from in using these 'stupid underpowered old cars'. Motoring has changed a lot in even 30 years.

[citsncycles]

Wasn't it James Hunt who's favorite vehicle was an A35 van, because the only way he could have as much fun in anything else would be to either be on a track or speeding?

[Tim Leech]

Dont forget modern cars are designed to crumple and protect you now where older ones didnt, had a slight shunt in the SD1 recently (not my fault) and I am surprised how well it held up, however it did shake me and the driver up, if it had been a side on collision the speed he was going I wouldnt be sat here now.

I worry about driving old cars all the time, and the safety aspect, but thats life in general, I dont take risks but sometimes they are unavoidable.

[Defender110]

Well I have took the plunge today and bought Helen a fresh family car (Mercedes C220 diesel elegance auto 2003) so sadly my time with the TZD is now definitely coming to an end and I will now be selling it. If anyone on here wants to make an offer before I ebay it please do. It is mechanically as good as you are going to get with bone dry running gear. It was bought with FSH and in my custody has had a full and meticulous regular servicing since including genuine Citroen timing belt kit including water pump (£350) front and rear camshaft seals front and rear crankshaft seals and new clutch as a precaution when I did the rear crank seal, brand new genuine Bendix front calipers (not recon) , shoes and discs just fitted along with genuine bottom ball joints (£320), New set of comfort spheres just fitted (£125) Michelin tyres all round, strutt return pipes both sides, cv boots both sides, No rust anywhere all sorted but would benefit from some cosmetic polishing work to the paint. Don't think you will find better structurally and mechanically. Open to any reasonable offers from Forum members to keep this youngest registered BX in the fold (built 93 but not registered till 96 N) before I advertise it elsewhere. Runs and drives perfectly. I had intended keeping this car for many more years but hey ho things change.

[Thread Bear]

If this sale is based purely on the safety worries of a BX I would express the wish that you not find out your well advised by bending the Merc!
Seems sad to sell a really good example, it will be very hard to replace if you change your mind. I like Mercs, though the build quality dropped off alarmingly. I loath the ball joint design that I am amazed was allowed on the road, as it all but garrentees a crash if the off side goes on a busy road. They are a great car, but I still put the BX ahead as it does important things better. Comfort, space in the Estate, Economy in use.

[Kitch]

I don't know how safe a 203 is but I know I drove one ages ago and thought it was truly horrific to drive

But as a family wagon vs. the BX it's a no brainer.

[really?]

Been following this thread with interest as I drive a BX on a daily basis. Actually agree with just about everything that has been said, but still not prepared to shelve the experience of driving this comfortable, willing, quirky car for a perhaps false sense of safety.

Some time ago a woman was fatally injured when turning right in a more modern "safer" car because she misjudged the speed of an approaching motor cyclist who was travelling at 100mph in a 30 zone, her sips didn't withstand the impact.

Also some time ago, was travelling down the M40 at perhaps a tad over the limit, as was everything else, when a curtain sided truck shed a few new car seats leaving debris on the tarmac. This had happened approximately 5 minutes before my arrival, so unaware of it.

Unbeknownst to me I inadvertently ran over something and it was only when I noticed the smell of burning rubber and all the vehicles behind me flasshing lights that I realised something may be wrong with my car.

How many other cars could cover 1 mile with a 1 square inch flap of rubber hanging off a tyre?

So the question is how safe is any car in any given situation and would I have been able to travel so far without an accident in any other vehicle given the above circumstances?

[Defender110]

I will still have my TGD Auto for my own use, it is purely the family hack that is being replaced. I have to agree that build quality of the Mercs did drop off dramatically especially on the W203 model that I have bought which I have had before but it was the car she wanted and has all the safety features. During my search I also found another very nice C class but the earlier W202 model which was far better IMO but swombo was adamant she wanted the other one. The build quality of Mercs has gone back up I believe but the W123 series Stuttgart Panza will never be topped in my eyes; I've had 5 of those and they were all superb.

EDIT; Yes Kitch I previously had a W203 C270 which wasn't good compared to a previous W202 C220 as the bigger heavier engine is horrible compared to the lighter freer revving 220 engine. Hopefully this latest car will also drive beter being the 220.

[electrokid]

Well there's a lot to chat about here isn't there !

Trying to sort out the more important things to say, I found Matthew's post interesting. Doing a bit of math from his link...

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablo ... wales-2009

touched on something I think is quite important but very much ignored. You have a greater than 1 in 27 chance of dying from something other than disease, or to put it another way, you are 27 times more likely to die of a disease than in an accident. Of all the diseases which have the potential to be fatal, you have a 1 in 3.5 chance that it will be cancer, or in other words, you are 7.7 times more likely to die of cancer than in an accident.

Now I never usually go off topic do I and whilst I would love to bang on about cadence braking for ages, and discuss SIPS (see Mk2 Granadas !) at great length, I quite like you lot, so I think the best thing I can share with you is...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Selenium-Gettin ... ing+cancer

I recommend you buy it, read it, and act upon it. I only recommend books that I've read and the contents of which resonate strongly with other associated reading and study. I recommend this book ahead of many others because it states which supplements are likely to work well and warns of others which will not work at all: I'm not going to go into that here because you need to read the book to get all the info - which is why they put it in a book in the first place.

[Caffiend]

Spending several months averaging 700 miles a week simply confirmed that it wasn't just me being over-sensitive feminazi: there is genuinely an alarming number of drivers who can't bear to be sat behind or overtaken by a blonde woman in an old car. Evidence submitted: the sharp drop in twattish behaviour of other drivers when driving in the dark and people can't see the age of the car/details of the driver.

Despite ^ that, there's actually fewer deliberate twats out there than there seems. Most are accidental twats through being so separated from the environment (discussed already) - and scarily oblivious to or forgetful of the fact that older cars don't have all the auto-correct features that save those in modern cars when they "do a stupid". I think most who drive older cars are more aware of their limitations, particularly in relation to Newton's 3rd law, and take fewer risks.