Fitting GTi gauges to a diesel (inc. Peugeot 205 gauges)

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rutter123
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Fitting GTi gauges to a diesel (inc. Peugeot 205 gauges)

Post by rutter123 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:17 pm

hi all i have obtained (for free) a pug 205 gti instrument panel, can i fit this in place of my tzd cluster? due to it having the temp gauge fitted. also will the rev counter work tho these are from a petrol engine? can i use the oil temp gauge as well? wiring advice appreciated if it is a viable swap,
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Re: pug 205 gti dash clocks into a bx tzd turbo

Post by kiwi » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:43 pm

If all the wiring connections to the loom match up no reason it wont work, been a long time since I looked at a pug gauge cluster from memory they are mostly the same as the BX.

With regards to the Temp Gauges unless you already have a temp gauge fitted odds are you wont have the sender units fitted on your engine. The reve counter should work provided the loom connections are correct.
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Re: pug 205 gti dash clocks into a bx tzd turbo

Post by MULLEY » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:38 pm

The rev counter will show the redline in the wrong place, if you are bothered about that sort of thing?
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mat_fenwick
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Re: pug 205 gti dash clocks into a bx tzd turbo

Post by mat_fenwick » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:38 pm

The gauges will all physically fit (although will be orange illumination if that bothers you). The rev counter however will not work - the diesel one is driven from a (Hall effect?) sender on the back of the engine which gives a pulse once every revolution. The petrol one takes a signal from the low voltage side of the coil, which gives two pulses every revolution. Even if the rev counter did work with the different signals, the petrol one would be reading twice as fast.

I'm pretty sure that the mouldings are the same though, so you could mix and match the oil and water gauges with your existing speedo and rev counter (certainly you can with the BX gauges). Illumination and fonts will be miss-matched though.
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Re: pug 205 gti dash clocks into a bx tzd turbo

Post by rutter123 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:14 pm

mat_fenwick wrote:The gauges will all physically fit (although will be orange illumination if that bothers you). The rev counter however will not work - the diesel one is driven from a (Hall effect?) sender on the back of the engine which gives a pulse once every revolution. The petrol one takes a signal from the low voltage side of the coil, which gives two pulses every revolution. Even if the rev counter did work with the different signals, the petrol one would be reading twice as fast.

I'm pretty sure that the mouldings are the same though, so you could mix and match the oil and water gauges with your existing speedo and rev counter (certainly you can with the BX gauges). Illumination and fonts will be miss-matched though.
hi mat thanx for that, it does look as tho the right hand instruments will interchange with my blank panel, what sort of adaption would i need to do to make the temp gauge work, wiring etc, and can i get the oil temp gauge to work as well? thanx
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Re: pug 205 gti dash clocks into a bx tzd turbo

Post by kiwi » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:43 pm

Thanks Matt I did not realise the Diesel Rev counter gauge would not work in a Petrol version! They pretty much look the same other than the sending units method from the engine. Useful info for the future when we do a cluster swap between cars (diesel to petrol or vica versa) for what ever reason.

rutter123, the question about getting a Temperature gauge working on a BX has a good write up somewhere on the forum if you use the search feature as a conversion that many of us have wanted to do with putting a GTI gauge on none GTI model. AS I said the Sender units are not in place to read the gauges. If you find the article it explains it quite well. Either that someone will be along shortly to post link.
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1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

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Re: pug 205 gti dash clocks into a bx tzd turbo

Post by Jayboy » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:02 pm

IIRC you need the sump from a car fitted with an oil temperature guage?

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Re: pug 205 gti dash clocks into a bx tzd turbo

Post by RobC » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:02 pm

are the threads the same as the sump plug? in which case all you need is the oil temp sender, and hey presto it becomes your sump plug as well. i'm sure someone did this once. i may have been dreaming, mind.
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Re: pug 205 gti dash clocks into a bx tzd turbo

Post by mat_fenwick » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:11 pm

There are some senders the same as the sump plug, yes. From memory they are either M14 or M16 thread, but I can't recall which one corresponds to the sump plug. The nut on the sender is brass so might not stand up to frequent oil changes well, but cheaper and easier than swapping the sump over.
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Re: pug 205 gti dash clocks into a bx tzd turbo

Post by Matt H » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:31 pm

You can get the rev-counter from a 205 STDT and combine it with the full temp gauge setup from a GTI. Hey Presto!

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Re: pug 205 gti dash clocks into a bx tzd turbo

Post by smiffy1071 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:15 am

I was not happy with the standard instrument set in my TZD, for some reason, Citroen insist on putting incomplete dashboards in all but their top spec cars!



I want a temperature gauge!

Here's how I did it.
I looked on Ebay until I found a BX GTi dashboard, which has all the gauges I want.
First I went to the thermostat housing, to find which one was the yellow light of death, and the red light of death as they are known..
The yellow light is not really needed, and the red light means it's already too late, as you've cooked the head gasket!

Short the wires from the electrical thermo switch to earth to see which is which.

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Once you have found the yellow light, you can swap the thermo switch in the thermostat housing, for a proper sender unit like this.

Image

and plug the wire in.

Next, you need to modify the instrument set.

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First, remove the whole instrument pod from the dash. Then remove the remove the instruments from the pod.
Unplug all the wiring, and work in a clean area where you won't lose all the bits!
First prize off the front cover carefully

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Next, undo the two 5mm head screw bolts that hold the light panel to the instrument set

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Next prize off this warning light panel.

Now drop in the water and oil temperature gauges from the GTi dashboard and put the two screws back in. now turn over the instrument set, and screw the six tiny nuts on the back.

Image

Now you can put the front cover back on the instrument set.

Turning attention back to the car, we need to modify the wiring.
Using a scrap car, you need to take a pair of snips and cut a wiring connector for the dashboard, as these are different from any other connector on the car.
Gently prize out one of the electrical connectors from the plastic housing

Image

Image

Note the block connector on the top right of the picture with not many wires in it...
This is the plug that needs to have the wires added. Take this plug, and you will see that the wires are numbered, position 6 is vacant, so add the connector that you've just removed here. Next, take the block connector with only one wire, (bottom of picture) and cut off the plastic block, and splice the wire to the newly installed connector.

As I'm not ready yet to put the rest of the gauges in the car, I'm only going to cover the temperature gauge for now, but once you've done this much, adding the rest of the wiring for the oil temp gauge will be a similar job. In fact, the oil temperature sender looks just like the water one, and can be screwed into the sump where the drain bolt should go.

You can now re-assemble the dashboard in the car, and you now have a working temperature gauge , just like you always should have had!

Image

I have actually done all the other gauges, but I haven't got photos, and I cant remember which wiring positions on the multi plug match which functions. However, if anyone wants to have a go at this drop me a line, and I'll more than happily pull my car apart to get you that information.

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Re: pug 205 gti dash clocks into a bx tzd turbo

Post by mat_fenwick » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:22 am

=D> Nice write up Smiffy!

I've done much the same, although I've kept the yellow light sender to illuminate the red light on the gauge. Reason being if for some reason I've missed the gauge creeping up, I'd rather my attention be drawn to it as soon as possible.

I'm pretty sure I've got details of which pins do what regarding the oil pressure and temperature gauges, so I'll try and dig those out. Might be worth moving this thread to the FAQ for ease of future reference too.
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Re: pug 205 gti dash clocks into a bx tzd turbo

Post by Wooscary » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:20 am

That's a fantastic write up. I'm pencilling that in for a nice summer day! I need to get the instrument pod out anyway to replace bulbs, and realign the plastic backing around the orange light of doom, as it has dropped slightly and allows the general dash lights to make it look, in some conditions like the warning lamp is illuminated when it isn't. Worrying!

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Re: pug 205 gti dash clocks into a bx tzd turbo

Post by mat_fenwick » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:41 am

Wooscary wrote:I'm pencilling that in for a nice summer day!
Do you have those in Manchester nowadays?

As Smiffy said, pin 6 is the one for the coolant gauge sender. If you want to fit an oil pressure sender it should be connected to pin 2 and the oil temperature sender to pin 7. Ideally you need a connector from a donor car, but you can get away with just threading the wire into the connector, and folding it over to make contact with the PCB foil.

To keep the oil pressure warning light you need a T piece screwed into the block. Available from places like Vehicle Wiring Products, Holden Classic Parts or your local hydraulic suppliers. This is the only picture I have, taken when I changed the original sender for a pattern one - the pattern one being a lot bigger (and failing after a couple of years...)

Image
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Re: pug 205 gti dash clocks into a bx tzd turbo

Post by Wooscary » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:47 am

mat_fenwick wrote:
Wooscary wrote:I'm pencilling that in for a nice summer day!
Do you have those in Manchester nowadays?
There are two planned for 2013.

:D